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The Pressure is Building for Peter Vermes & Sporting KC
The heat is on Peter Vermes as fans are demanding change.
It was more of the same for Sporting KC over the weekend in a 2-1 loss to the New England Revolution. They have no offensive firepower, no creativity in the midfield, and they earned another red card as well. SKC is officially bottom of the table with three goals on the season, equal to the number of red cards they’ve received. On this episode of Shades of Blue, we’re talking about the various changes the club could make to appease fans.
Erik Thommy may have been better than his recent form, but as the attacking midfielder, his play is actively hindering SKC. Alan Pulido has still yet to go 90 minutes but he looks like the only source of creativity at times. Both Daniel Salloi and Johnny Russell have also yet to play to their abilities this season.
The heat is on Peter Vermes as players return from injury and the form doesn’t seem to be improving. This show is Vermes Out curious and we discuss what that might look like. Our eyes on are on the players, who still seem to be motivated. But if a coach loses the locker room, it’s over.
Tuesday’s US Open Cup match against Tulsa is a golden opportunity for SKC to right the ship and remember what winning feels like. But if they lose… could it be the end of Peter Vermes?
We play a game of ‘You Be the Coach’. You’re now the manager of Sporting KC, what would YOU do with the lineup this week?
Find the KC Soccer Journal wherever you get your podcasts. Please subscribe, rate, & review if you like the show! You can follow Cody @ThatCodyTho, Thad @TheBackpost, and Robert @SpKCLife.
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Lots of Random Sporting KC News and KC Current Playoffs
Lo LaBonta Signs Long-term Extension with KC Current
Quarterfinals in KC: Current host Gotham
Hailie Mace Says Goodbye to Kansas City and the Current
Sorry for all the cursing. I got a little fired up.
You were right to be. And for the right reason. Squad players from the Academy is a win. Not a failure. A star from the academy is a bonus.
AFC Ajax, the Gold standard of Academies, expects 1.5 First Team players a year from Jong Ajax. That’s not stars. Or even starters. That’s contributors to the first team. Every squad player who can eat minutes from the Academy is a win. That’s a fee you didn’t pay. A SMS wage you don’t spend on an MLS vet. It’s cap saved so you can spend more on the top end.
But we don’t save that money. We bring in people like Khiry Shelton to eat 1000mins on a transfer fee. For no production. On Senior Maximum money. He loafs and throws up his hands after 15mins? No consequence.
We paid to bring Latif Blessing to MLS. Never saw the player he was. Let him go to keep a 33yr old who didn’t stay with the team anyway. And then watched him and Ilie, who we gave up on, anchor a MLS Cup, West winning midfield. While we pay full price to keep Zusi and Roger at the club while the midfield spirals down the drain.
Those are the roster decisions we’ve made. We hold fan favorites far too long. Let useful, cheaper alternatives walk for nothing, and fail to develop our youth. And then argue Vermes needs more time, when he’s had more than anyone in MLS. With more control than anyone else in the league.
#VermesOut
I don’t think Khiry came on a transfer fee, but the rest of your points stand.
The problem isn’t that Thommy isn’t playing the 10 (creative 8) poorly.
It’s that he’s being expected to play it at all. He isn’t a creator. He’s a shuttler. He has enough dribbling skill to move the ball between lines. And can pass well enough in midfield to keep the ball moving.
He is not a threat in the final third. And shouldn’t be expected to be one. The fact he is is a problem of lineup selection and tactics. Not Thommy as a player.
You’re asking a true 8 to be a Gutierrez or Feilhaber. And he’s Not. THAT. GUY.
Remi Walter’s a true 8 being asked to play the 6, too. How can we play our best players out of position and expect success?
There’s far too much of that in this squad. Versatility is great; it’s a real bonus to have guys who can play out of position and hold their own in a pinch.
Unfortunately, this roster is constructed to have too many guys constantly being asked to do things that are outside their true skill set. Good leaders set their employees up in situations in which they can be successful. SKC are setting their players up to fail, and not acknowledging it. Just because Thommy can play the 10 doesn’t mean he should be asked to do it regularly, nor should Walter be routinely tasked with playing the 6. Yet this roster is constructed so they have to.
#WeDeserveBetter
#VermesOut
#BlissOut
To me, when opportunity arises Felipe’s looked more of a threat in the final third than Thommy. But unfortunately he seems to get out muscled a bit much.
The one fair pushback on the show was Felipe put himself behind with his own life choices. That’s not Vermes’ fault.
But Hallisey could be doing what Shelton does, for less money. Duke should be eating Roger’s minutes in midfield. Why is Shelton getting minutes ahead of Tzionnis even though Shelton’s produced nil over multiple seasons. Because he can theoretically defend?
Great. I have an idea, retrain him to be Zusi’s backup. He’d provide the backline the pace and physicality it desperately needs. And then we wouldn’t have a black hole in the attacking third where our right wing (or striker!) Should be.
I think if you asked Peter, and he’s said as much before, he doesn’t play a #10. He plays dual 8s. So, is he asking Thommy to be a 10 and create, or is that Thommy trying to life the team up instead of doing what he was doing so successfully last year?
To Joe’s point about Remi being out of position, that seems like an injury thing. Sure, maybe PV should have two solid #6s, but in a league with a salary budget, it’s hard to have two starting quality guys, so Remi is probably the next best 6 behind Radoja (assuming he’s good based on the 30 minutes he’s played there).
Now, if they aren’t doing what they are supposed to be doing (Thommy), it is on Peter to bench them. Maybe he thinks what Thommy is doing, even if it’s not what he’s asked, is still better than the next guy up because Kinda isn’t healthy yet and now Pulido can’t drop in to play that spot because Agada is out.
I’m sure you’re right about Walter, Chad; that was what I was referring to about flexibility being a bonus. To Shawn’s point, if we had cheaper, equally (in)effective options signed elsewhere SKC could afford better backup options at a position that’s so critical to Vermes’ set-in-stone 433.
It would also provide avenues to give a guy a break without pulling someone else out of position to do so. Of course, that would require the manager to embrace squad rotation….
#VermesOut
#BlissOut
#WeDeserveBetter
True, Vermes says he doesn’t use a 10. But he has always given one of the 8s more attacking responsibility. Which is why I put “creative 8” in parenthesis behind it. Kinda, Gutierrez, Feilhaber, all would pop up in the box far more than their “second 8”. The “true 8,” if you will. It would be fair, if I were going full FM, to call the one role a Mezzala, and the other a Carallero. One is expected to arrive late in the box and help attacks. The other is a shuttler who helps progress the ball. Defensively, their responsibilities are similar. But in the buildup and attack, they have different duties.
You can’t have a midfield 3 with nothing but shuttlers. Or you get SKC’s. A lot of moving the ball into and out of defense. But no breaking lines or aid for the attack in the final third. I’m not going to say Roger never got into the final third or took a shot. But you don’t expect him to be the guy breaking into the box, or making the final pass. At least, not until this weekend, where he was making runs in the center forward channel, for reasons only Vermes knows….
Overall our midfield suffers because whoever is partnered with Thommy and Walter has a major deficiency (pace/wind for Roger, positioning and awareness for Felipe, though he’s at least young and should learn) that the two of them must make up for. Remi has acquitted himself brilliantly playing out of position as a 6 and I would feel comfortable with him there going forward if the third MF doesn’t make things harder on the other two. I have some thoughts specifically addressing Thommy and Agada and what’s changed since they arrived last year to their current form. I think Agada’s is likely more clear cut, as this stress fracture has likely been hampering him multiple weeks if not this whole season. Thommy on the other hand is delivering much less than he brought last year. Here are some stat lines that illustrate his form last year vs. some other players in the past that help show how good his production was last year:
2022
Thommy- 12 GP,18 SoT, 3 G, 22 Key Passes, 2 Assists
2021
Kinda- 26 GP, 25 SoT, 5 G, 8 As., 26 KP
2020
Kinda- 18 GP, 11 SoT, 6G, 4 As., 24 KP
2015
Feilhaber- 32 GP, 17 SoT, 10 G, 15 As., 59 KP
Here’s Thommy’s stats from last year (roughly) adjusted to 32 games played:
32 GP, 48 SoT, 8 G, 5 As., 58 KP
As you can see, even by this basic method of comparison, Thommy isn’t prime Benny, or any other true no. 10 for that matter, but he is as good or better than Kinda going forward in attack. He is much better playing the second-to-last ball than the final one; his style of playmaking is more suited to having multiple runners where he can pick one out and let them lay it back across for a tap-in as opposed to unlocking the back four with a single ball.
That being said, the biggest change watching last year pre and post Agada/Thommy is that when Thommy stepped into midfield he started directing traffic and the positioning and cohesion improved drastically. Prior to Their arrival, SKC had a goals for vs. goals against of 25-41. The last 12 games of the season, they were 23-15. Thommy’s orchestration and vocal leadership (which complements Walter’s nonverbal, example driven leadership) not only produced more goals but also limited opponents’ offense. It was evident watching Thommy direct others improved our ability to move as a unit in defense and then transition to attack, even though we aren’t built to have any actual full counter-attacking transition plays, as our wingers/forwards (outside of healthy Agada) almost always slow down or stop the ball trying to feint or get opponents to bite rather than making full out runs with the ball (as we recently saw the Revs do to us).
The difference between all of this good and what’s currently happening on the field is why I have come around to the Vermes Out position, and that is the fact that PV had a year to drill what he wants into Thommy and the rest of the team again. Its telling to see two players come in and make small adaptations to their game to fit the new system they play in and completely turn around a season, then the next year when they are more integrated into what the manager wants have that production and form fall off a cliff. I’ll freely admit that I’m one of the most pro-Thommy people out there, mostly for the things he brought last year which may be clouding my view to a degree, but its easy to see how frustrated he is after each loss after we make simple positioning or effort errors and give away goals and red cards when he seemed to have rectified most of that when he came on last year.
TL/DR: Thommy and Agada were fantastic, then PV got his hands on them and drained the life out of the team.
Superb analysis, Alex! I was also thrilled with what I saw from Agada and Thommy last year, and pointed to their signings as proof Vermes could still identify and bring in talent.
I agree that they’ve been shells of what we saw last summer (though Agada’s injury certainly accounts for some of that). Vermes has to shoulder at least some of the blame for it.
But he won’t.
#VermesOut
#BlissOut
#WeDeserveBetter
A simple question: Would Vermes the Manager and/or Sporting Director fire Vermes the Manager and/or Sporting Manager?
Also, as much as I’d love to see an Open Cup run salvage the season, if someone guaranteed me that SKC losing every game this season would bring about significant and fundamental changes to the club, ownership, management, etc, then I would say lose out. Bad end to a lot of careers for players I love though.
p.s. Does this site have a ‘register’ function anywhere, or do I manually input every time I leave a comment? I see the login page…
Seeing as Vermes the Sporting Director hired Vermes the coach. And then became a coaching junkie? I don’t see how he would fire himself from either role. And I don’t see how he would be able to accept having one removed and keep the other.
Honestly, I’d be fine if Vermes the Sporting Director cleaned out the coaching staff, kicked Bliss to the curb, and then set about building a roster to suit a new manager. But I can’t see it happening.
Good points, but I meant my tone to be facetious. Would Vermes fire himself if he held himself accountable the same way he does young players who mess up (and then rarely, if not never, see the field)?
To answer your registration question, we are working on it. Right now, it seems to be all “guests.” But it should be a cookie in your browser I believe. If you are on a different device (phone, computer, etc.) you may have to do it twice. But once you’ve done it once, I tested on my wife’s account, and she stays “logged in.”
I do want there to be permanent registration, but it’s a work in progress.
ooo, This Felipe talk pissed me off. Cody, if you thought Felipe was going to become a star, that’s you not paying attention. He was always going to be a squad player. He shouldn’t be dinged because you have unrealistic expectations. I’m happy that this kid I’ve watched since he was 16(!) is making a real contribution. Our academy kids should not have to be potential Euro stars to get minutes and be seen as successful. It’s HARD to develop a squad player. It’s a victory. We had a lot of kids who might have gotten there, we don’t anymore. The pipeline is maybe not dry, but it’s getting there.
100%. Which is why I pointed at Ajax. They don’t expect every youth player to be a megabucks star. Why should we?
Homegrown squad players mean you can spend on higher quality at top end of the roster. We can’t, because we don’t have it.
You tell ’em Bryan!
That said, been watching a lot of SKC II and I see some REAL potential down there. The announcement of Abualnadi, Bryant and Cruz being loaned up for the Open Cup is nice to hear.
Yeah all of that is fair, but he was sold to me as the heir to Roger’s throne and he was part of this amazing wave of homegrown talent.
Yes, that’s good if he can be a serviceable midfielder off the bench in this league! As you said, it’s not easy to do. But I do think the club had higher hopes for him and others. And I’ve not been a fan of some of his shithousery on the field, as well as missing a year for off the field issues.
Like I said on the pod, I’m sure the club is in an advantageous position with his contract. And he could of course keep progressing and still find another level. So keep him if it makes sense. But the quality of MLS midfields has jumped tremendously and SKC is in need of someone in that spot.
I love the shithousery.
And while I’m ranting about things said in the pod, I’ll point out another I agree with:
This is a roster built to play the 4-2-3-1. Or even (gasp) a 4-4-2 Diamond. But I’d try the 4231 first. This midfield screams double pivot, or 3 grinding ballwinners (which is why the Diamond appeals). But it doesn’t have the creativity to link play a 433 expects from the “free 8s.”
I’ve got a question around Vermes’ extension: has it been signed, or only agreed to? I’ve seen it reported both ways.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/sporting-kansas-city-peter-vermes-reach-contract-extension-through-2028
https://www.kctv5.com/2023/02/23/sporting-kc-signs-manager-peter-vermes-5-year-extension/
If it’s only an agreement it’ll be somewhat easier to get out from under as opposed to a signed deal.
#VermesOut
#BlissOut
#WeDeserveBetter
I think you are reaching on this. I’m sure he signed this thing immediately. But that’d be crazy if you were right!
No doubt you’re correct, Chad. I’m also aware that accuracy in reporting sometimes takes a backseat to being first on a story. Having worked with clients on contracts, I’m kind of attuned to looking for loopholes, though…
#VermesOut
#BlissOut
#WeDeserveBetter
We’re finally right where we belong in the power rankings! Dead last.
Now SKC can only improve right?